Replies: 6 comments 5 replies
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cc @nrmancuso |
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@sktpy thank you for sharing your thoughts about this. Asynchronous communication over the internet, across time zones, languages, and cultures is hard. This is something that I have learned (and are continually reminded of) over the last few years as I have become active in Open Source and moved to a fully remote position in my professional career. I try to always imagine that the other person has the absolute best intentions, which you've mentioned above.
No one should be "reminding" anyone of this, because it is a falsehood. We are all busy humans, trying to do our best.
I don't think we need to place blame on anyone here, and I am not sure how it would help. Different people have different communication styles, and as technical people, we tend to be more direct. Would sharing a link to a specific line have been more helpful? Of course. Was it necessary? IMO, no.
This is absolutely not my thinking, and if this is the message we are conveying, then we need to do better. |
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@nrmancuso Thank you for going through my rant. ❤️
That's a great point.
What's in good sport can still be hurtful nonetheless, I guess that will just start to subdue as one gets more experienced.
Sad reality is we do this in one way or other, this hasn't been the case for me, but I have seen this done to other contributors, iykyk. Edit: That's a really admirable trait of you to believe that it is a falsehood ⭐ ❤️ 🫡, not everyone is in the same boat. It isn't realistic to expect that everyone can think the same way, but I am glad that I have atleast one shoulder to cry on. 🙂
I hope everyone shares the same feeling :)
We do need to, presenting report shouldn't feel like we are presenting it to some head of state. I can only speak for myself, but I put extra care in every issue and PR to ease the review process in any way possible. Because at the end of the day, maintainers do need to handle a large variety of things, no one is denying that, Just because one can ask for something, doesn't mean they should, we should be thoughtful about what is asked for. At the end I would like to conclude this with the quote from romani,
That's a really great motto, wouldn't it even be better if both parties can extend the same diligence? I take great care, in return I don't expect any more than what would eliminate the need for spoon feeding, I hope it is not too much to ask for. ❤️ |
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I am glad that we were able to have a discussion regarding this, and clear the things out. I believe it may be helpful in providing insights to the budding contributors, as I believe these thoughts may have crossed various minds, But I hope we can look past all that and keep the spirit alive. ❤️ |
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@romani I have been thinking about your comment, here are my thoughts. Disclaimer: This can wait, but if you got time, feel free to go through it. While having discussion over this may seem a waste of time, but I believe that it is important to step back from technical things for a few moments and understand the social dynamics at play here, so that we all can partake in the initiative in a better way.
That is very noble of them. But I believe in my opinion, someone who is not a maintainer can be going through the same as well. But would I say that I sacrificed something here? But if I may, I would like to give an unsolicited advice,
And in the cases like above, if only situation in which one can response to PR is via multitasking when they push their child on the swing. But somehow, if one still feels obliged to respond to PR and whatnot even in those moments, first of all huge respect to them,
This is a very reasonable point and I agree 100%, this can explain many things. I don't have any problem whatsoever fulfilling any request that can help maintainers. I can understand that they may be in rush, having a bad day, or just lost for some reason, and even in those cases if they still go on to handle theses issues and PR, that is some serious dedication, and words cannot express my gratitude. But at the end of the day, I, we the contributors are also human beings and hence unfortunately subjected to human emotions. So while from now on I will keep the pain of maintainers in mind, I do understand the complicate nature of asynchronous communication, wording and what not, energy level and all the bells and whistles. While I can remember this now, and it is highly likely that I would never be startled by such things, ❤️ |
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@nrmancuso Edit: Nvm, Ignore this comment, didn't felt right to delete it since I have pinged you. I have learned some valuable lessons here regarding interaction in oss, will post them once I have given them deep thought, so that it may benefit anyone who wanders here and is going through the same. |
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Refer to this conversation (Link)
The maintainer in question seems to have missed where we have tested the new feature,
which is totally fine, mistakes happen, sometimes things inadvertently are able to slide through.
So I sent the links two the two files relevant to the test.
I don't have any problem till this part.
Note that these two inputs were specifically added to test the feature in question,
From top to bottom, each and every character in there, is to test the "specific" in question.
But then, maintainer in question proceeds to provide advice to "to include line numbers".
That does not makes any sense at all, as the whole two files, each and every character, only contains what is relevant to testing the new feature.
Including line numbers can be helpful where:
For things above that totally makes sense, to include line number/or permalink to the code selection for the ease of review, and I have done so in the past.
But then I thought, maybe the maintainer in question missed that those whole files contain only the relevant test inputs,
which I then explained in the following comment.
And even asked to reconsider if this was suitable for this specific case.
Everything is fine to me till here, it is what the comments that maintainer in question sends afterwards that is really distasteful and disrespectful at best, and "gaslighting" at worst.
It's one thing to miss something, but it is another thing to not accept the oversight and then double down on the delusional statements.
Do we now have to state obvious facts in the PR?
Is anyone here confused the only input file that were created as the part of PR contains the relevant inputs and not the secret recipe for Coca-Cola?
While we the contributors are reminded about that how busy maintainers are and we shouldn't waste their time,
What is it that makes the maintainer in question believe that contributors have got time for unemployed behaviour either?
If any one believes that I am blowing this out of proportions, please consider the effort that is put out and when someone does not have enough decency to even look at the changes before shooting out illogical advice, it is really hurtful.
What I am expecting here is either of the two as following:
I believe this is an isolated incident and does not reflects the view of this project and other people involved in this, or even the maintainer in question, I do believe the maintainer in question had the best interests in the mind.
I always go above and beyond to provide explanations, relevant links in the PR for the ease of the maintainers,
along with that I am always open to any suggestion, nrmancuso can probably confirm this.
I am contributing foremost for the joy of contributing, and love for computer science, yes being selected for gsoc is nice but that's not the end of the world, I am looking for projects that I can be part of for long term.
But if this is the collective thinking of all the maintainers that they somehow are superior, and require to be spoon fed (which I highly believe is not the case for all), I cannot continue here, so please do tell me if that is the message we are going for.
But in that highly unlikely scenario, I would still finish any PR and Issue that concerns me, and in that highly unlikely case please have my sincere gratitude for providing a welcoming place for new contributors, and taking the time to review my PRs.
Thank you.
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